Vatican City - She arrived straight from Kyiv, where two days earlier she had met Volodymyr Zelensky, prayed at the memorial to the victims of the Buca bombings and learned how to take shelter when the air raid sirens are sounded. Hungary's President Katalin Novák visited Rome yesterday morning, where she attended two meetings in a few hours. The first meeting was with Pope Francis, with whom she has developed a close personal relationship in recent years, and the second was with "Giorgia" ("We will remain friends even when we are grandmothers", she said). At the centre of this diplomatic triangle is the war in Ukraine, with its latest developments. The death of Prigozhin, the weight of Europe and China in the new world order and, of course, the next stage of Cardinal Zuppi's mission were also discussed. Il Messaggero spoke to President Novak before her return home.

Madam President, do you see room for peace?

We had a private meeting with President Zelensky in Kyiv, and I agree that it is time to start talking about peace. Pope Francis and I are in full agreement on this. I cannot talk about a concrete peace plan at the moment, but I am sure that we are now closer to taking concrete steps towards peace than we were four months ago, when the Holy Father visited Budapest. But I cannot say more than that. 

Do you think Vladimir Putin will be weakened or strengthened by Prigozhin's death? Could this accelerate a possible ceasefire?

Many people tend to simplify events; this can be a kind of wishful thinking, where we see in events what we want to see. That is why I would certainly not see the death of Prigozhin as a weakening of Putin. But I also do not think that it should change our position of unequivocal condemnation of Russia's aggression in Ukraine. 

What will happen in Russia after this?

I fear that Moscow is interested in a long war.  For the moment, I am looking for signs that Russia is ready for peace talks.

Do you see any signs of this?

As I said: I'm looking for them.

With the death of the founder of the Wagner Group, is it possible that the flow of refugees into Europe will increase?

So far, we have focused on the problems at the heart of Europe, so little attention has been paid to the conflicts in Africa, which have also brought to the fore the role of some foreign actors, such as the Wagner Group.  I do not expect this phenomenon to end overnight.  The migratory pressure from Africa has already intensified: if you look at the immigration figures, it is quite clear. And in Italy, the increase is particularly marked. I agree with Giorgia that we need to work together to halt the destabilisation of African countries. Pope Francis has the same clear vision of the situation, and we agree with him.

Pope Francis is keen to use all diplomatic means to create an atmosphere conducive to a ceasefire between the parties and the start of negotiations. He has sent Cardinal Zuppi to Kyiv, Moscow and Washington and is now waiting to fly to Beijing. Can this strategy work?

It must work! As a devout Christian, I trust that the Pope will receive from God the necessary strength to act for the common good. He wants to talk to everyone. I am sure that he will succeed, and that is why Pope Francis has a key role to play in the peace negotiations. I am confident that there will soon be a change in this respect. The fact that Cardinal Zuppi has succeeded in negotiating with important players is an important achievement and a positive sign in itself, and it will be no different in China. This is a very important development. We talked about this this morning, but I cannot say more than that.

At the World Youth Summit in Lisbon, Pope Francis called on Europe to "have the courage to kindle sparks of hope and extinguish the fires of war. He also said that "courageous paths of peace" are missing.  Did he make a personal reference to anyone?

Peace also requires courage, and unfortunately few people take this path. Without it, we cannot go far, so we need a change of direction to stop the gunfire. The conditions for a just peace can only be worked out at the negotiating table. It is natural that Ukraine will defend itself, and we must support it in this.  At this point, we must be cautious and condemn any attack that it suffers.

Cardinal Zuppi is working to ensure the return of nearly 20,000 Ukrainian children abducted by the Russians. How do you see this process?

I also addressed this issue in Ukraine. As a mother of three children, I can empathise with the situation. These children have lost their childhood and may lose their future. In order for the abducted children to return home, we need the Russians, political will on the part of Russia and a mediator. That is what Cardinal Zuppi is working on.

Have your discussions with the Pope touched on climate change?

We talked about this at length. The Holy Father said that he is working on a new encyclical, a continuation of Laudato Si, which will be published on the feast of St Francis on 4 October. Laudato Si was first published in 2015, and since then much has changed in the world, so the Holy Father believes it should be updated. It will also cover new topics compared to the issues discussed in Laudato Si, but the details of these have not been discussed.

You know Giorgia Meloni well: your relationship is a friendly one that goes beyond politics. How did you meet?

We met many years ago, when she was the leader of a party with barely 4% of the vote and I was a state secretary of a country with lesser importance for Italy. But I know we will be friends even when we are grandmothers.

Both of you have managed to develop a good personal relationship with the Pope: how can this diplomatic triangle be put at the service of peace?

The Holy Father and I have spoken several times about women leaders. I am convinced that women can play an important role in times of conflict, because they can make a great contribution to its resolution. This is due to their innate empathy and maternal instinct. They know that they have to bring children into the world and, as mothers, the most important thing is not to seek conflict but to resolve it. Perhaps it is this attitude that fundamentally determines our actions.

How do you judge the performance of your friend Giorgia?

She has a difficult legacy to deal with. In my opinion, she does a good job, she is wise, honest and loves her people. She adopts decisions that further the interests of her people. There is no contradiction between her promises and her actions. I trust that Italy will be characterised by stability under Meloni's leadership.

Read the original interview in Italian HERE!